For those of you that didn't hear, Coach K got his 800th win in an exciting game at NC State, and of course, discussion has ensued on his place in history. He's young enough that he could win 1000. Many of the talking heads have decided that he's the best coach of this era. Is he really the Adolph Rupp or John Wooden of the last quarter century? No way.
Two coaches should be really offended by those statements.
Bob Knight: 902 wins gets him in the discussion, and further examination shows just how great Bob Knight's influence has been. He won 3 national championships at Indiana, and the Big Ten regular season title 11 times in 21 years. However, in my opinion, the real measure of his influence is seen in his players and assistants who have gone on to success as coaches and in the NBA. Knight's legacy includes Isaiah Thomas, Randy Wittman (coach of the T'Wolves), Mike Woodson (Hawks coach), Lawrence Frank (Nets), Steve Alford, Mike Davis, Dan Dakich (now head coach at Indiana), and many others (43 total) including one Mike Krzyzewski. Cam Cameron even had the chance to learn from Knight.
Dean Smith: Taught Roy Williams, George Karl, and Larry Brown (need I say more?). Famous players include Michael Jordan, Vince Carter, Jerry Stackhouse, James Worthy, Sam Perkins, Antawn Jamison, and Rasheed Wallace. Throw in 879 wins (2nd to Knight), and 27 consecutive 20 win seasons, as well as 11 Final Fours (2nd to Wooden) and a 96.6% graduation rate. The numbers and the players don't even indicate how much effect he had on the style of play (and the crappy officiating) of the ACC.
So let's look at Coach's K legacy: Tommy Amaker, Quin Snyder, and a grand total of 8 coaches as of 2006. Jeff Capel (Oklahoma) and Mike Brey (ND, high school at DeMatha under the great Morgan Wooten) are the only ones doing well. Players in the pros: Christian Laettner, Boozer and Battier, Elton Brand? I'm sure I'm forgetting a few, but Duke is becoming notorious for good college players that do nothing in the pros.
Coach K is certainly good at winning, but he is definitely not the coach that defines this generation of college basketball.
March 3, 2008
Coach K Greatest of this Era?
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umm...you're forgetting one of his best, Grant Hill, and if you want to throw in a few more Mike Dunleavy, I know it's funny right. Chris Duhon, Loul Deng, Danny Ferry, Corey Maggette. In any given year only 50 players actually make it from college into the Pros, and not as many of those actually stick with it.
I agree Coach K can't be compared to Dean Smith and Bobby Knight, and I don't think he would want it, Knight is who made Coach K Coach K. But I will say if Coach K and Team USA win gold at the Olympics...we should revisit this discussion.
Coach K would have to coach a bunch of NBA players to win gold for Team USA. Plus, it's a tournament where he'll have a great advantage in talent. History tells us that Coach K does neither of those things well.
I don't think you should use how his guys did in the pro as a measurement of how good a coach he is. If anything, the lack of pro success proves he is a better coach.
That being said, Coach K has certain recruiting advantages that other coaches never had like an American Express commercial saying how great he is that runs during the whole NCAA tournament.
His players not doing well in the pros goes to show how little they progressed (or how much they regressed - Shavlik Randolph?) while under him.
Also, you can look at winning percentages (Smith - .776, K - .748, as of 8/23/07) and head to head matchups (Smith was 24-14 against coach K).
...and coach K is an insufferable douche
I'm a huge terp fan so it pains me to say this but when it is all said and done this will be a debate that is ended by Coach K.
He will break well into the 4 digit wins barrier and it is reasonable to think that with all of his recruiting advantages he will win at least one more National Championship before he hangs up the whistle.
It doesn't make any sense to evaluate him on the success of players in the NBA, which any sane person would admit is a much different kind of "basketball" than college. This is especially true when you consider that Grant Hill might have gone down as one of the all time greats if it weren't for a string of injuries.
Furthermore, if a player plays poorly when they are not being coached by someone that they played well under, doesn't that allude to the idea that the coach is doing a good job?
It definitely doesn't make sense to evaluate coach K on the coaches that sprang from his loins either. I don't see what that has to do with anything.
Coach K, Tiger and A-Rod (three men that I root against whenever I get the chance) will squash the debate as to who was predominate in their respective sports much like Jordan squashed the debate in basketball. (keep in mind I think A-Rod will win one of the next 4 world series) Remember, if you will, that anyone from Utah, New York or Pheonix hated MJ in his prime. When you say things about Coach K realize that you might very well be lumped into the category of some lousy "duke hater" down the road.
I know that is where I will probably be.
If there is any reason to downplay K's accomplishments:
-he gets all the calls
-he has a huge recruiting advantage and almost never gets diamonds in the rough to "grow into their potential"
-he is egotistical and he throws passive aggressive barbs at other coaches
-he has had several high ranked teams perform well in the regular season only to collapse in the post season (see JJ/Sheldon in 06-07)
-he looks like a rat
-he went to army
I have to go back to the stats. Records like all-time wins are dumb because that can just mean you coached/played a long time. Obviously, to get 800 wins you have to be a very good coach, but when comparing coaches with over or around 800 wins you should look at things like winning percentage.
Smith has more wins than Rupp or Wooden, but I don't think that makes him a better coach. Rupp (.822) and Wooden (.804) both had a much higher winning percentage than did Smith. However, Smith did have a significant impact on how the game is played. I think Wooden is the greatest all time and it can be debated who's second between Rupp and Smith. Knight's winning percentage was .710.
I'll stick with Smith since I'm a UNC fan and I don't feel like looking up Knight's stats. In 32 years Coach K already has more losses (261) than Smith(254) did in his 36 years as coach.
I think Coach K is at the top of a second tier of all time coaches like Olson, Chaney, Tarkanian, Boeheim and Calhoun.
Also, I don't know if those stats include the year of K's back problem. http://www.truthaboutduke.com/encyc.php?encycid=9
some might argue that the job of a college coach is to adequately prepare his kids for the future. clearly coach k has not done that with regards to success in the NBA.
is it coincidence that only 2 duke alumns (both as reserves) have nba rings, while UNC alumns have 26 rings? seriously...
Do you mean Alumni's as people who actually graduated, or people who went one year and then moved on to the pros?
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